Rabbi Chaim Eisen, an orthodox Rabbi from Jerusalem, spoke in our church last night. This a very rare event, an orthodox Rabbi in an orthodox church. I believe this is a step forward towards a mutual understanding of our common believes and for us as a church another step in the process of returning to our Jewish roots, what we lost.
He was speaking about Ruth: “Your People are My People, and Your God is My God” (Ruth 1:16) He stressed the fact that Ruth converted to the people of Israel and that this does not apply to the attendees, to the Christian people. He also was not looking for converts to Judaism. Remain in your calling he said. (Like Paul said in 1Cor.17-18) And just keep the seven Noachide laws. (Like the apostles said, Acts 15)
Personally I was affected by hearing him saying that they as Jews were highly offended by the fact that some Jews calling themselves “Messianic” Jews. In fact Jews who believe in Jesus. They implicitly are saying by such a statement that the common Jews are not Messianic. This while the concept of the Messiah is a deeply rooted Jewish idea. To say with such a statement that the Jews don’t believe in the Messiah is to spit in their face he said. With that said, he was very clear to leave Jews Jewish and Christians Christian. I thought the world is not ready to adopt a common Messiah. In between is in plain sense not possible. Messianic Judaism is not regarded as Judaism, if you want it or not. Judaism has to accept their own accepted Messiah, which is a future event.
We made one step. I know that the Christian passion is take a few steps more instantly. But we cannot go ahead of time. We made one step forwards, and I’m glad of it. We stood shoulder to shoulder and spoke to each other. And that’s good.
Update: you can listen here to the lecture or download it here.
(Scroll to 12.00 min. to begin with the English introduction and lecture.)
Faith(based) Works 
November 6, 2013 at 23:18
[…] Rabbi Chaim Eisen spoke at an orthodox church this week, claiming he didn’t seek converts to Judaism – that Jews should be Jews, Christians should be Christians, and Messianic Jews do not exist as their own category. […]
November 7, 2013 at 04:00
What church did he speak at?
November 7, 2013 at 06:59
The Christelijke Gereformeerde Kerk at Middelharnis, the Netherlands. http://www.cgkmiddelharnis.nl. We have a representative in Canada http://www.frcna.org
November 7, 2013 at 16:03
Thanks. @Jos: “He said that Christians already keep the seven Noahides. That sounds good because he implicitly allow us to have Jesus and not to abandon us as idolaters.”
Very interesting. I know some Noahides in USA who are big time enemies of Jesus and insist Christianity is idolatrous. I’m not sure if rabbi Eisen really disagrees with them or is being diplomatic. The problem with Noahidism in my view is that it does not provide any framework for worshiping reverencing and loving God, which of course is what Jesus taught above all else. Noahidism only enjoins against blaspheming God, but it has no positive commandment to worship Him: http://1stcovenant.com/about_us.htm
Here is an essay I wrote many years ago on Noahidism. It is pretty bitter, and Israel Shamir picked it up and posted it. See about 2/3 way down pages:
http://www.israelshamir.net/shamirReaders/english/Shamir–Peter-Edel-On-Zionism.php
http://rense.com/general82/noahide.htm
I know Gev doesn’t like Shamir, and truly he is an elusive character. But I think his essay on walls in Judaism is brilliant: http://www.israelshamir.net/English/wall.htm
Jos: nice comments. Can you let us know which church exactly he spoke at? When I lived as a Breslover in Har Nof, rabbi Eisen was a neighbor. He was known back then (1980-1990s) as a maverick who thought outside the Orthodox box.
This is another maverick charedi Daniel Eidensohn:
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/ – yadmoshe@gmail.com
I have a Ph.D.in psychology and have provided guidance and short-term therapy for many years – especially in areas of religious conficts & reframing. In the last 25 years I have been writing reference books for the Orthodox Jewish community. I am primarily interested that people know and understand what the acceptable alternatives are rather than selling a particular view or engaging in apologetics. My books include Yad Moshe the index to the Igros Moshe of Rav Moshe Feinstein, Yad Yisroel the index to the Mishna Berura of the Chofetz Chaim and Daas Torah an encyclopedia of Jewish Theology. I have recently published 3 volumes on the issue of Child and Domestic Abuse in the Jewish community and a revised 2nd edition of Daas Torah (-available in seforim stores and Amazon).. My blog -Daas Torah has the goal of providing honest discussion and clear citation of the original source material that underlies the issues. In recent years I have received guidance from Rav Moshe Sternbuch of the Eidah Charedis. I am a member of the chareidi community in Jerusalem. Email -yadmoshe@gmail.com
November 7, 2013 at 18:11
A possible paradigm for understanding the vexing problem of Jewish-Christian relations is is based on the structure of the atom. We know that the atom consists of a small nucleus filled with protons and neutrons surrounded by a huge field of orbiting electrons. These electrons interact with other atoms to combine into molecules.
I think this provides an interesting framework for viewing the relationship between the two Biblically-based faiths. Judaism tends to have a positive self-image (positive charge of protons), and its adherents tend to guard themselves from the wider world and to live in self-imposed ghettos. One could argue that the State of Israel is such a ghetto in a globalized nationalistic framework. The relatively small size of the nucleus (comparable to the size of the sun relative to the rest of the solar system) reflects this Jewish model of living alone and in isolation.
In addition, the nucleus also contains neutrons with no charge (neutral). I believe this reflects the idea that Judaism is generally a non-evangelistic faith not seeking converts and content to live alone and apart from the rest of humanity. With all their positive self-image, Jews are unable or unwilling to seek out others and convert them to their faith in God. They are confined to the small nucleus of the atom surrounded by neutral non-interactive particles.
The electrons, on the other hand, have a negative charge, which I believe reflects the negative self-image of Christianity with its focus on original sin and the depravity of fallen mankind and the need for salvation and redemption. But of great interest is that these electrons interact with other electrons from other atoms and bind with them, forming larger clusters called molecules. This reflects the powerful phenomenon of Christians evangelizing to the ends of the earth and seeking converts. In a psychological sense, we might say that since misery loves company Christians particularly feel an acute need to engage in this kind of evangelism seeking out allies with whom to congregate via indoctrination.
I wonder what the readers of this blog think of such a concept?
The point is that atomic structure (and by extension order of the universe) requires both aspects of a small nucleus containing positively charged protons and neutral neutrons as well as widely orbiting electrons with negative charge seeking out electrons from neighboring atoms.
I recognize that usually Jesus is seen as the Son and the nucleus of our faith, but since Jesus so emphasized evangelism, I don’t see how we can associate Him within the confines of the non-interactive nucleus.
November 7, 2013 at 18:13
Last paragraph should read:
I recognize that usually Jesus is seen as the Sun and the nucleus of our faith, but since Jesus so emphasized evangelism, I don’t see how we can associate Him within the confines of the non-interactive nucleus.
November 7, 2013 at 22:36
Do you have a way to contact rabbi Eisen?
I found these about him:
https://plus.google.com/108389815777984252033/about#108389815777984252033/about
http://yeshivathsharashim.org/bios/r-chaim-eisen/
November 7, 2013 at 23:28
That’s true